Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joshua Herndon on May 22, 2011 at 10:32am

I will

Gerry, now that I have calmed down and looked at your response to my comment with a clear head, I would like to address some of YOUR statements.

 

“To satisfy a court sufficiently that the sound data provides evidence by a  J2825 test as measured by a participating inspection station is all that is required. This test is available to any Maine resident, today, not necessarily by a Maine owned station. The Statute does not stipulate that a Maine J2825 measurement must be used.”

To answer this I invite you to read the amendment that was adopted in the place of the original bill. The last line in sub-section (b) states, “ Measurements must be made by a participating certified inspection station.”

I have included the amendment as an attachment for you if you have not read the whole thing yet.

“The SAE J2825 Level Idle test, decibel fail level is not 92 dB(A) for all vehicles.  94 decibels will pass any motorcycle that is measured using its factory built exhaust system for an idle test, as stipulated by the J2825 recommended pass/fail standards for the idle test.”

I did not include the added 2dbA for some stock motorcycles, as I did not include the 1-1.5 dbA allowance for meter variance because that is part of the standard that a certified inspection technician would take into consideration, but the overall dbA levels of the test are stated in the amendment as 92,96 and 100.

“The rpm levels used during the measurements may very by model and there is a motorcycle model rpm reference guide to determine the correct rpm.  Motorcycles without a tachometer must have one added to administer the swept rpm or set rpm test.”

In the SAE standard it states in section 6.3.2, Engine speed for Set rpm and Swept rpm tests;  “Lessthan 3 cylinders or more than 4 – 2000 rpm (+ or – 200 rpm) OR 75% of maximum engine speed, which ever is less” AND “Engines with 3 or 4 cylinders – 5000 rpm ( + or – 200 rpm) OR 75% of maximum engine speed. Which ever is less”

“The use of the term facility to describe the place where a J2825 measurement procedure takes place is misleading.”

I left out the rest of the word salad in this statement, but the word ‘facility’ does not necessarily mean a building or indoors. A race track is a facility as is a driving range for golf or training someone to ride a motorcycle. Once again, the parameters of the test will be conducted in accordance with the J2825 criteria by a certified technician at a state certified inspection facility.

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gerry Alden on May 22, 2011 at 7:46pm

 

The J2825 recommended maximum level of 94 dB(A) @ idle is for ALL original motorcycles with stock factory noise control configurations, not a few.

 

As test by Supertrapp a stock 2010 FLHRC Road King measured 93.3 dB(A), @ 2000 rpm

All 9 Supertrapp systems that fit this model passed the J2825 recommended sound pass/fail level except for Standard Mean Mother Slip-ons and Kerker Stout 4" Slip-ons. Four of the models reduced the noise @ 2000 rpm from stock and five increased the noise levels @ 2000. Two slip-ons doubled the sound energy pressure over stock to pass J2825.  A defense of a summons with J2825 will erase Title 29a 1912 Section 3 Amplification Prohibited, as a violation, for this bike with 9 different SuperTrapp model exhaust systems.  

 

This is a test conducted out of state. Many manufacturers are including J2825 pass standards as a feature to its products.  Are you telling me these J 2825 sound measurement recordings for this motorcycle do not hold any value to a Maine motorcyclist? Are you telling me a court would ignore stated J2825 data, as warranted by a manufacturer, included as evidence in a defense?

 

 

 

 

Joshua Herndon said:

I will

Gerry, now that I have calmed down and looked at your response to my comment with a clear head, I would like to address some of YOUR statements.

 

“To satisfy a court sufficiently that the sound data provides evidence by a  J2825 test as measured by a participating inspection station is all that is required. This test is available to any Maine resident, today, not necessarily by a Maine owned station. The Statute does not stipulate that a Maine J2825 measurement must be used.”

To answer this I invite you to read the amendment that was adopted in the place of the original bill. The last line in sub-section (b) states, “ Measurements must be made by a participating certified inspection station.”

I have included the amendment as an attachment for you if you have not read the whole thing yet.

“The SAE J2825 Level Idle test, decibel fail level is not 92 dB(A) for all vehicles.  94 decibels will pass any motorcycle that is measured using its factory built exhaust system for an idle test, as stipulated by the J2825 recommended pass/fail standards for the idle test.”

I did not include the added 2dbA for some stock motorcycles, as I did not include the 1-1.5 dbA allowance for meter variance because that is part of the standard that a certified inspection technician would take into consideration, but the overall dbA levels of the test are stated in the amendment as 92,96 and 100.

“The rpm levels used during the measurements may very by model and there is a motorcycle model rpm reference guide to determine the correct rpm.  Motorcycles without a tachometer must have one added to administer the swept rpm or set rpm test.”

In the SAE standard it states in section 6.3.2, Engine speed for Set rpm and Swept rpm tests;  “Lessthan 3 cylinders or more than 4 – 2000 rpm (+ or – 200 rpm) OR 75% of maximum engine speed, which ever is less” AND “Engines with 3 or 4 cylinders – 5000 rpm ( + or – 200 rpm) OR 75% of maximum engine speed. Which ever is less”

“The use of the term facility to describe the place where a J2825 measurement procedure takes place is misleading.”

I left out the rest of the word salad in this statement, but the word ‘facility’ does not necessarily mean a building or indoors. A race track is a facility as is a driving range for golf or training someone to ride a motorcycle. Once again, the parameters of the test will be conducted in accordance with the J2825 criteria by a certified technician at a state certified inspection facility.

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joshua Herndon on May 22, 2011 at 10:48pm

Gerry you are giving me a headache. You are reading way too much into this. As for a court accepting data from the manufacturer as evidence, we will have to wait and see if that is the case, but the law will require the testing for an affirmative defense be conducted by a state certified ispection station. A person could try to use the manufacturer's data and if the court accepts it then that would set a precedent for use of data other than the state aministered test.

I said some, not a few, motorcycles because that is what the standard says. The some are the motorcycles that measure over the 92 dbA level.

By the way, I just realized that I did not attach the amendment to LD 477 in my last post so   here it is.

 

LD 477

 

Amend the bill by striking out the title and substituting the following:

‘An Act Relating to Noise Violations by Motor Vehicles, Including Motorcycles’

Amend the bill by striking out everything after the title and before the summary and inserting the following:

‘Emergency preamble. Whereas,  acts and resolves of the Legislature do not become effective until 90 days after adjournment unless enacted as emergencies; and

Whereas,  this Act provides a defense for mufflers or exhaust systems of motor vehicles and motorcycles to violations of excessive or unusual noise; and

Whereas,  it is important to enact this law immediately as motorcycle traffic is at its peak during the spring and summer months and the effective date of this legislative session’s enacted laws will likely occur in late summer or early fall; and

Whereas,  in the judgment of the Legislature, these facts create an emergency within the meaning of the Constitution of Maine and require the following legislation as immediately necessary for the preservation of the public peace, health and safety; now, therefore,

Be it enacted by the People of the State of Maine as follows:

Sec. 1. 29-A MRSA §1912, sub-§6,  as amended by PL 2005, c. 314, §11, is repealed and the following enacted in its place:

6.  Defense for noise violations by motor vehicles and motorcycles.   The following are defenses to a violation of subsection 1 or 3.

A.  If a muffler or exhaust system of a motor vehicle as defined in section 101, subsection 42, not including a motorcycle, does not emit noise in excess of 95 decibels as measured in accordance with standards and specifications outlined in standard J1169 adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers in May 1998, subsections 1 and 3 do not apply. A person served with a Violation Summons and Complaint charging a violation of subsection 1 or 3 must provide satisfactory evidence that the muffler or exhaust system does not emit noise in excess of 95 decibels as measured in accordance with standards and specifications outlined in standard J1169 adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers in May 1998. Measurements must be made by a participating certified inspection station.

B.  Subsections 1 and 3 do not apply to a muffler or exhaust system of a motorcycle that does not emit noise, as measured in accordance with standards and specifications outlined in standard J2825 adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers in May 2009, in excess of 92 decibels at an idle and emits noise that does not measure:

(1) More than 96 decibels using the set RPM test or swept RPM test for an engine configuration other than a 3cylinder or 4cylinder engine configuration; or

(2) More than 100 decibels using the set RPM test or swept RPM test for a 3cylinder or 4cylinder engine configuration.

A person served with a Violation Summons and Complaint charging a violation of subsection 1 or 3 must provide satisfactory evidence that the muffler or exhaust system does not exceed decibel levels as described in this paragraph. Measurements must be made by a participating certified inspection station.

Emergency clause. In view of the emergency cited in the preamble, this legislation takes effect when approved.’

SUMMARY

This amendment strikes and replaces the bill, which requires motorcycles to be equipped with certain mufflers approved by the United States Environmental Protection Agency. Current law provides a defense for owners of motor vehicles charged with violations of excessive and unusual noise under the Maine Revised Statutes, Title 29A, section 1912, subsections 1 and 3, except that the defense does not apply to motorcycles. This amendment makes technical changes to this provision of law and provides a defense for motorcycles. This amendment also adds an emergency preamble and emergency clause.

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gerry Alden on May 23, 2011 at 9:41am

Our court judges accept the out of state decibel testing performed on newly manufactured motorcycles undertaking the U.S. EPA pass-by test, to meet or exceed the maximum noise emission decibel level for the vehicle to be compliant to the federal standard regulations in CFR 40 Part 205, in  Title 29a sec. 1912 Section 3 Amplification Prohibited, as it defines what noise is above the factory level, by "noise emitted by the motor above that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle".  Amplification levels can not be defined without a base level as a starting comparison point,  measured against the higher levels of volume that is emitted by the replacement muffler.  Our Legislature recognizes all of the out of state decibel recording data a manufacturer is mandated to meet and report by the federal standard.  It is not a stretch to find a judge to treat this data as admissible on a non-tampered with motorcycle, to define an exhaust as a standard variable that allows the vehicle to meet the federal standard, without requiring a similar J331a pass-by test to be administered on Maine soil. Therefore another manufacturer, in this case building an after-market product to be offered into commerce, to meet or exceeded the pass/fail recommendations of a J2825 procedure at a stipulated rpm, for a stock engine vehicle, could indeed be accepted as data, as offered as evidence to a judge to determine in a satisfactory fashion whether a motorcycle's noise volume met subsection 6. conditions. In other words, when the facts of the equipment's noise attenuation performance is known to be true, a traffic court judge may deem a defense of a section 3 violation possible by the use of this data.   This J2825 measurement would not need to be made in state to be found true, just as the required label on a factory muffler is made from a measurement not made in the state, is found also to be true.  That is my point about the testing location, and my logic behind my reasoning.  There is no question that many after-market companies are already warranting what systems meet J2825 compliance, and many will stamp into the exhaust statements that their products are J2825 compliant for the purpose of enforcement.  Will the measurement need to be conducted in our State. for an officer to use discretion to avoid writing a citation, when the J2825 stamp lays upon the exhaust? NO.

 

Point 2.  The idle test decibel measurement level to pass a test, is recommended for ALL motorcycles with stock pipes to be added a 2 dB(A) bonus to the 92 dB(A) to equal 94 dB(A).  In other words, for those working for the MRF, any factory original motorcycle untampered with,  with stock exhaust, will pass the idle test of the J 2825 procedure if it measures 94 dB(A) or less.   The reason for this bonus is that during the research of the test several stock vehicles exceeded the idle recommended level for all vehicles. The J2825 procedure uses the idle test to easily, and quickly fail obvious loud vehicles, by a single officer administering the test.  This use of this procedure for roadside enforcement purposes can not fail factory motorcycles that meet the federal standard.  The reason some original motorcycles fail 92 dB(A) is because the pass-by EPA motorcycle noise test procedure does not test for noise at idle, allowing manufacturers to design an engine management system and exhaust system to allow a pleasant exhaust note at idle, but be muffled to mitigate noise at the higher rpms to meet the federal standard.  J 2825 recommended pass/fail levels were needed to be adjusted for that reason.  Therefore, the
idle test, establishes a maximum sound level of 92 dB(A) for an
on-highway stationary motorcycle at idle, regardless of the number of engine
cylinders. A 2 dB(A) 'bonus' (max level of 94 dB(A)) is established for
motorcycles with U.S. EPA compliant (i.e., labeled) exhaust systems.

Subsection B. in Section 6, as revised is not written correctly to stipulate this J 2825 requirement and would need to be amended.

Joshua Herndon said:

Gerry you are giving me a headache. You are reading way too much into this. As for a court accepting data from the manufacturer as evidence, we will have to wait and see if that is the case, but the law will require the testing for an affirmative defense be conducted by a state certified ispection station. A person could try to use the manufacturer's data and if the court accepts it then that would set a precedent for use of data other than the state aministered test.

I said some, not a few, motorcycles because that is what the standard says. The some are the motorcycles that measure over the 92 dbA level.

By the way, I just realized that I did not attach the amendment to LD 477 in my last post so   here it is.

 

LD 477

 

Amend the bill by striking out the title and substituting the following:

‘An Act Relating to Noise Violations by Motor Vehicles, Including Motorcycles’

Amend the bill by striking out everything after the title and before the summary and inserting the following:

‘Emergency preamble. Whereas,  acts and resolves of the Legislature do not become effective until 90 days after adjournment unless enacted as emergencies; and

Whereas,  this Act provides a defense for mufflers or exhaust systems of motor vehicles and motorcycles to violations of excessive or unusual noise; and

Whereas,  it is important to enact this law immediately as motorcycle traffic is at its peak during the spring and summer months and the effective date of this legislative session’s enacted laws will likely occur in late summer or early fall; and

Whereas,  in the judgment of the Legislature, these facts create an emergency within the meaning of the Constitution of Maine and require the following legislation as immediately necessary for the preservation of the public peace, health and safety; now, therefore,

Be it enacted by the People of the State of Maine as follows:

Sec. 1. 29-A MRSA §1912, sub-§6,  as amended by PL 2005, c. 314, §11, is repealed and the following enacted in its place:

6.  Defense for noise violations by motor vehicles and motorcycles.   The following are defenses to a violation of subsection 1 or 3.

A.  If a muffler or exhaust system of a motor vehicle as defined in section 101, subsection 42, not including a motorcycle, does not emit noise in excess of 95 decibels as measured in accordance with standards and specifications outlined in standard J1169 adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers in May 1998, subsections 1 and 3 do not apply. A person served with a Violation Summons and Complaint charging a violation of subsection 1 or 3 must provide satisfactory evidence that the muffler or exhaust system does not emit noise in excess of 95 decibels as measured in accordance with standards and specifications outlined in standard J1169 adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers in May 1998. Measurements must be made by a participating certified inspection station.

B.  Subsections 1 and 3 do not apply to a muffler or exhaust system of a motorcycle that does not emit noise, as measured in accordance with standards and specifications outlined in standard J2825 adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers in May 2009, in excess of 92 decibels at an idle and emits noise that does not measure:

(1) More than 96 decibels using the set RPM test or swept RPM test for an engine configuration other than a 3cylinder or 4cylinder engine configuration; or

(2) More than 100 decibels using the set RPM test or swept RPM test for a 3cylinder or 4cylinder engine configuration.

A person served with a Violation Summons and Complaint charging a violation of subsection 1 or 3 must provide satisfactory evidence that the muffler or exhaust system does not exceed decibel levels as described in this paragraph. Measurements must be made by a participating certified inspection station.

Emergency clause. In view of the emergency cited in the preamble, this legislation takes effect when approved.’

SUMMARY

This amendment strikes and replaces the bill, which requires motorcycles to be equipped with certain mufflers approved by the United States Environmental Protection Agency. Current law provides a defense for owners of motor vehicles charged with violations of excessive and unusual noise under the Maine Revised Statutes, Title 29A, section 1912, subsections 1 and 3, except that the defense does not apply to motorcycles. This amendment makes technical changes to this provision of law and provides a defense for motorcycles. This amendment also adds an emergency preamble and emergency clause.

 

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 6
• 7
• 8
• Next ›
• Page